tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post7215262696028815932..comments2021-02-07T10:56:21.628-05:00Comments on Deconstructing Neverland: Lord have mercyMisplaced Honorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07678088467204383307noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-87635378774992991642011-09-20T22:04:55.712-04:002011-09-20T22:04:55.712-04:00hey bro! i appreciate what you've posted here...hey bro! i appreciate what you've posted here. i wasn't prepared for it when you told me you'd be posting on Rom 9. i was thinking more reformed in nature :)<br /><br />i can't wrap my mind around all of it because i come from a similar perspective as JR. but i absolutely agree with how beautiful and amazing the love of Christ is! it's a shame that we can cheapen His love in our minds through our religious baggage (i'm guilty of it). But it's awesome that the depths of His love is infinite so that we never grow tired speaking of and resting in His love. <br /><br />i appreciate what Mike said as well. condemnation is far from our calling in Christ. we have no corner on righteousness or holiness. Christ alone is both! we are righteous in Him and must never forget that. We should be a people known for our love because of His love pouring out of us.Neale and Jennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13512118123592647808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-49994821016889314112011-08-28T18:48:56.153-04:002011-08-28T18:48:56.153-04:00Romans 9 has long since been a favourite chapter o...Romans 9 has long since been a favourite chapter of mine. Blessings :)Will Rochowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04308106368138818481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-40964979136495706802011-08-28T18:33:52.951-04:002011-08-28T18:33:52.951-04:00Great Blog posting. I was having the same thoughts...Great Blog posting. I was having the same thoughts actually about God and Romans 9 in that God truly is Sovereign over all things under the Heavens and Earth.<br /><br />God Bless!<br /><br />-MitchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-3209865085068080222011-08-25T22:54:52.265-04:002011-08-25T22:54:52.265-04:00Peter,
I've had others ask me if my understan...Peter,<br /><br />I've had others ask me if my understanding of election is corporate like Wright. Interesting you bring that up. I haven't read any of his thoughts on the matter but I do see election as being both corporate and individual with corporate being the goal. I don't know how well the whole "national identity" interpretation plugs into the overall context of this passage. Some places it fits well, other places you'd have to force it. Nevertheless, I was filled with joy by what it says about Christ without either of those the unnecessary filters. I am intrigued by the corporate election thoughts though...and inclined to look for some of N.T.'s writings on the subject. Thanks for the suggestion.Misplaced Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678088467204383307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-65851871609001745102011-08-25T22:45:53.920-04:002011-08-25T22:45:53.920-04:00JR,
The intent of this post is not to have a doct...JR,<br /><br />The intent of this post is not to have a doctrinal debate. It was intended to display to my readers the love of Christ "while we were yet sinners" and the wonder of our Holy God loving unholy creatures so much that He comes to save rather than condemn. I'm simply sharing the morsel of Christ that was fed to me with you all. Hopefully you enjoyed it as it was intended and were able to partake of the spiritual value.Misplaced Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678088467204383307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-28043791633644843052011-08-25T22:39:16.313-04:002011-08-25T22:39:16.313-04:00Harry,
Do those books deal with these topics or v...Harry,<br /><br />Do those books deal with these topics or verses? I'd love to read them, book recommendations as responses to blog posts have been some of the best. Regretfully, we are in no financial position to purchase books right now. You could always send them to my Kindle as a gift (;Misplaced Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678088467204383307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-27050043110904043822011-08-25T22:36:29.214-04:002011-08-25T22:36:29.214-04:00Mike,
Jesus' love is completely amazing! I&#...Mike,<br /><br />Jesus' love is completely amazing! I'm glad you're here sharing in it with us as we are all being changed from one degree to another.Misplaced Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678088467204383307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-89682097221563390562011-08-25T22:35:01.033-04:002011-08-25T22:35:01.033-04:00Shane,
If you go and slap-yo-mama, keep my name a...Shane,<br /><br />If you go and slap-yo-mama, keep my name and my blog outta yo mouth :)Misplaced Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678088467204383307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-23402180975996106462011-08-25T22:33:50.154-04:002011-08-25T22:33:50.154-04:00Jamal,
Bible = good
filters = bad
:)Jamal,<br /><br />Bible = good<br />filters = bad<br /><br />:)Misplaced Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678088467204383307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-6256459952108551652011-08-25T21:12:08.774-04:002011-08-25T21:12:08.774-04:00I have learned an explanation from NT Wright that ...I have learned an explanation from NT Wright that has made sense of these verses for me. Paul is not talking about individuals, but nations. All of Romans is about God's covenant faithfulness. Israel was the nation created for dishonorable use, since the law was given to it in order to magnify its sin and then for that sin to be placed upon Israel's representative, or King, Jesus our Christ. Israel was a vessel of wrath, so that the Gentiles could become a vessel of mercy. I think you will like this explanation Bobby, since I have seen how you beginning to see that everything is corporate :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-2521463209624041482011-08-25T14:09:51.913-04:002011-08-25T14:09:51.913-04:00JR, I necessarily disagree with your point of view...JR, I necessarily disagree with your point of view on grace and God's "hardening" of Pharoah's heart, and probaby many other points. However, probably far wiser people than you or I have debated these points that we all know we disagree on for hundreds of years, spawning entire denominations in their wake, so the disagreement here is not what I want to focus on. <br /><br />Agree or disagree on the points above, I think Bobby hit the nail on the head when he said, "Lord have mercy on your children when we condemn others for unrighteousness and think that they are hopeless..."<br /><br />Whatever we think on election or free-will, it is not our place to condemn anyone, at anytime. God alone is the judge, and His judgment is right, in whatever form He will do it. (Remember, whatever we think about God does not change the nature of what/who God is. He is who he is, period. Our opinions are just that, opinions.)<br /><br />Our job is to love as Christ loved, give of ourselves in service and sacriice to one another, especially within the family and body of Christ, and to "outsiders" if you will, in an effort to show God's love and win them, in whatever way God chooses, to Christ. This, I think we can agree, is what Jesus commanded and what we must do in obedience to Him.Mike Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05274746511721978414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-66554608561816139162011-08-25T11:18:36.020-04:002011-08-25T11:18:36.020-04:00In shared joy that I have with you in the Son of G...In shared joy that I have with you in the Son of God, I'll try and take a look at this from a middle perspective to be fair to opposing views; and in doing so I have found a few straw men/misunderstandings in your argumentation.<br /><br />Let me start by mentioning that I know of no reformed person who would say God chooses because one is good and one is not good; or that God has fun in damning people (from the Tozer quote). That, indeed, would be an absurd position to take and Tozer is right to blast it. Perhaps out of hyper-Calvinists you would hear such a thing, but not reformed evangelicals (at least, mature ones). <br /><br />Second: The idea you present of "whosoever" is absolutely correct. Anybody who believes in Jesus will have eternal life. No reformed person would ever deny this. I think where the disagreement comes in is with what one thinks of man's natural ability to believe while still in Adam (yet to be born again). The non-reformed perspective would say "well, John 3:16 must mean all men in Adam have the moral capability to believe;" and that is an exegetical error which reads something into the text that is not there. Let us allow the text to say what it says: if one believes, they receive eternal life. Praise God! But it does not speak of the moral ability to have that belief. This is where election comes in and that question is answered elsewhere in Scripture (for just one example, Jesus in John 3:3-8). But it is not answered in the wonderful words of John 3:16.<br /><br />As to Romans 9, you commit what is known as the fallacy of equal ultimacy. This is probably the most common misunderstanding when interpreting Romans 9. You equate the preparation for wrath with the preparation for glory; which brings us to question the justice of God. Equal ultimacy says "nobody deserves punishment, God just predestined some people to destruction and some to glory." This is incorrect. The way to look at it is that nobody deserves God's grace; as the Scriptures tell us, all have sinned and fall short and there is no one righteous, no not one. We are all, as Jesus said, evil. In Adam, in the flesh, we are all slaves of sin and appropriately objects of wrath (as you mentioned). Therefore, all people deserve destruction; yet only by the grace of God many receive glory. <br /><br />There is never injustice with God. God is either just in condemning those who hate him (which all by nature do) or merciful in election, which is not arbitrary but according to His counsel and will (Eph. 1), and so as Paul writes in Romans 9:16 "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." <br /><br />Also, consider the context of Romans 9. Paul uses Pharaoh as the example. So which is true: God was holding out hope that Pharaoh would turn to Him? or, as the text says, God raised Pharaoh up for the expressed purpose of demonstrating His power with the plagues and the Exodus - and so hardened Pharaoh's heart so His plan of salvation would be brought to reality. Could Pharaoh have thwarted God's design and plan for the Exodus by turning to God? In the same way: Could Pilate and Herod have thwarted God's design in the salvation of sinners through Christ if they just released Jesus? The answer to both of those questions is "no." These things happened, as it says in Acts 4:27-28, "according to whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."<br /><br />I apologize for the length of this response but let me just close with this: We are to obey Christ and freely offer the Gospel to every single creature on the planet. We are to plead with all to come to their Savior and in so doing receive eternal life and a new King. We are witnesses to the love of God, and we are not in any way in a position to condemn, for "vengeance is mine, says the LORD." Let us obey God in the proclamation of salvation to all; and let us also leave the saving to Him according to His love, His mercy, His grace, and His will.<br /><br />Grace be with you -<br />JrJrhttp://jrsheets.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-21645146174820676622011-08-25T10:31:32.170-04:002011-08-25T10:31:32.170-04:00Bobby,
I think you would enjoy reading, "The ...Bobby,<br />I think you would enjoy reading, "The Naked Gospel" and "God Without Religion" by Dr. Andrew Farley. He is a pastor & professor at Texas Tech University.<br />HarryHarry Stevensonhttp://www.facebook.com/harrystevensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-6059405746873457252011-08-25T09:58:34.654-04:002011-08-25T09:58:34.654-04:00@Shane - slap-your-momma! ROFL but I agree, awesom...@Shane - slap-your-momma! ROFL but I agree, awesome!<br /><br />@Bobby, I've found the Holy Spirit will "change", or perhaps inform is a better word, our understanding of Him in subtle ways all of our life. It's a journey of learning. <br /><br />God's love is what it's all about, and I love what you wrote. Thanks for sharing.Mike Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05274746511721978414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-28957254403079372672011-08-25T09:41:58.940-04:002011-08-25T09:41:58.940-04:00Bobby, this is slap-your-own-mama good.
Love, lo...Bobby, this is slap-your-own-mama good. <br /><br />Love, love, love it.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4514316733918143759.post-32354382923889415762011-08-25T09:37:15.109-04:002011-08-25T09:37:15.109-04:00Wow, I love what you have written here brother. I...Wow, I love what you have written here brother. I'll never look at that passage in Romans 9 again the same. It truly is amazing to see the 'filters' that come from our past religious backgrounds. Thx for sharing this bro.Jamal Jivanjeehttp://jamaljivanjee.comnoreply@blogger.com